My friends and I often have conversations about very intriguing topics. This most recent one was too good not to share.
We had been talking about our love for the "Hidden in the Heartland" series that you can now watch in Amazon prime. They are short episodes that show a great amount of evidence and archeological finds here in North America that seem to confirm that the Book of Mormon took place in the Heartland.
The question of a friend came up;
"I'm wondering if you have you heard where the natives from Mexico, south and Central America may be from? Wasn’t Lehi from Manasseh? I had a close friend who was from Colombia and he was from the tribe of Manasseh.
Do you think that are still part of Lehis people?"
Our friend Beth responded;
"Yes the DNA testing done shows the Mesoamerican tribes are linked more to Asian peoples. The North American tribes, mainly of the NE United States, carry a maternal haplogroup only found in a few other rare places in the world - one of those being Israel, and more specifically Nazareth. I just learned that about a month ago that specifically it's linked to Nazareth.
I have a fascinating book that explores the phenotypes (outer genetic characteristics) of the North American natives and Mesoamerica natives compared to different groups of people in the world. I’ll see if I can find it and send pictures. Seeing the pictures of side by side comparisons, it was very clear who the ancestors of both groups were, even without the DNA evidence to back it up.
Also, if you compare a Hindu temple from India with the Mesoamerica temples, they are the same.
Jewish temples did not have stairs. There’s a Mosaic law about it. One of the rabbi’s told that to either Rod or Wayne while on a tour of Jerusalem. He said staired temples were for the gentiles. The Hebrews had ramps so they could gradually ascend up to the temple without flashing people in the crowd from underneath. It was a way to keep modesty.
The temples in Mesoamerica all have stairs. The Hopewell temples all had ramps! Wayne has a whole magazine dedicated to the parallels between the Hindus and the Aztecs. I’ll see if I can find that too.
So, we know some things that I think will help answer your question about Lehi’s seed:
1) there were already groups here when Lehi arrived. The Nephites went north, but the Lamanites joined with and mixed with some of the groups already here. We can pick this up from clues in the scriptures - their skin turned darker within a generation and they become way more numerous than the nephites very quickly too.
2) The BOM ends with the restrictions of the Nephite people in 400 AD. It was another 1000 years before Columbus came and all the conquistadors of South America. A LOT of history happened in that time.
From what I’ve studied and come across, there were multiple times of groups conquering each other and the Lamanite bloodlines being mixed into the non-Lehi descendant bloodlines that were already in South America.
For example, I’ve mentioned the period of 400 years when the “snake people” of Mexico (so either Mayans or Aztecs, can’t remember which) came up to the Georgia area, made the natives their slaves (so made the Lamanite descendants slaves), ruled over them, mixed with them, adopted some of their traditions and stories, and then eventually went back down to Mexico. During this time, they forced their slaves to recreate some of their temples they left behind. There wasn’t all the rock, so it was built of dirt. Let me see if I can find a picture of it for you. It’s still there today for tours and everything.
The chief of that tribe that had been made slaves told this part of their history to Wayne May while he toured it.
It’s called the Etowah Indian Mounds. It’s very different looking from the Hopewell mounds left behind. This clearly had a link to the ancient tribes of Mexico. So, right there you have one case of the Lamanite bloodlines mixing in with the people of Mexico. They would have taken back some of the traditions and stories the Lamanites had.
Another example is I believe the Inca or another Peruvian group. I wish I remembered that one better. Either they came north or northern people’s went south. But there was a lot of mixing in the 1,100 years after the Nephites were destroyed!
So, yes, I really do believe the native peoples of South America are descendants of Lehi and probably why they join the church in higher numbers than other places. They are helping fulfill the promise made to Enos.
The other thing to remember is that Christ visited more than just the Book of Mormon people. He told them he had other sheep to visit as well. The book, "He Walked the Americas", explores the stories different native groups have passed down of the white bearded prophet that visited their people. I’ve read through most of those accounts and see a common theme of him teaching peace, loving one another, and higher farming technologies. For instance, it was the great white bearded prophet that taught Squanto’s people how to put a fish under their corn before planting. Squanto taught it to William Bradford, and it ended up saving the lives of the Pilgrims.
So yes, I do also believe he visited the Aztec and Mayan people of Mexico as well! I don’t believe it’s what our Book of Mormon account is, but there seems to be much of the doctrine he would have taught left behind and shown on their temple walls as well. They also have their traditions of him coming to visit.
Maternal haplogroup is what they call a special marker that is passed from mother to daughter. It’s almost like a fingerprint identification that gets passed on in our genes. So you each carry the one that came from your mother’s mother’s mother’s mother’s mother, etc, back through time.
There is a book called “The 7 daughters of Eve” that traces the 7 ancient women who each had a genetic mutation or variant which created their own unique haplogroup. Those had branches and mutations as well until we have many maternal haplogroups today.
So above, they are showing the different groups of Maternal haplogroups that are found in the Americas among native women.
If you read through it, it explains how haplogroup X is found in Israelite women and NE America’s, but not Mesoamerica women.
The Haplogroups A, B, C, & D are all found in Mesoamerica, and they are all Asian.
I think the pictures comparing faces of women from Asia compared to Mayan and Aztec women is fascinating. Same with a Galilean woman compared to North American Indian woman.
I also ended up copying that whole chapter above because they delve a bit into how Israelite genetics shows up in the British Isles!
In most of the rest of the book, he makes comparisons between Semitic vs Asiatic phenotypes...or in other words, the physical facial differences between Israeli & middle eastern groups and Asian groups. Asian groups tend to have flatter foreheads and noses whole semeric groups have rounder foreheads and prominent noses. I think there’s a difference with the jaw too, but can’t remember what. So with that in mind, he looks at the profiles of various figures...
The first group of pages I posted above also ended up going into Ephraim. This is the haplogroup and DNA evidence that shows the tribe of Ephraim ended up in the British isles.
These three pictures are exploring how the modern descendants of these groups still match up with ancient carvings of their ancestors.
This compares a Mayan woman with an ancestral carving with a Filipino man.
Mayan statue with a Siberian man.
This shows links between Mayan statues and Chinese statues. Even the dress and necklaces.
Now Jewish compared with Mayan and Northern American profiles.
These three pictures show how even the custom of dress and jewelry was similar to Semitic peoples. Braided hair as well, meaning the dress, hair, hat and jewelry customs of North American Indians are similar to Semitic tribes in the Middle East.
And these compare ancient and modern Jews with northern American Indian people.
Then he goes through and compares famous leaders with Semitic peoples. This page above has a historical quote from someone that heard Lincoln say he supposed he was Hebrew in origin, even though his ancestral lines with British and Dutch.
And then here it compares Joseph Smith’s family with Jewish faces as well. It amazed me the comparison of his son to a Samaritan priest - they look like twins! Then Joseph’s uncle, nephew and his own death mask.
So yes - there is quite a bit of evidence out there linking the North American Indian tribes to Israel, while the complete opposite for linking MesoAmerican tribes to them.
The man that wrote this book above is not associated with the FIRM foundation. I know he likes Wayne May’s research, but this was his own. The book was mainly focused around exploring a mummy from Egypt he thought might be Joseph of Egypt based on phenotype profile and other clues. I’ve only seen him at a conference one time. He has done this research independently and reached the same conclusion Wayne is finding with the artifact evidence.
Another interesting thing that came to mind about this topic. The MicMac Indians of NE US and Canada area. Their script and customs match up with two things - the ancient script of an Irish people, and the script copied down from the gold plates to show the professor. They all match up.
Meaning, the Micmac people (who have many Jewish customs, including the mosaic marriage laws for widows, hair, hats, etc), have links to the BOM peoples as well as a group in Ireland. Which is another evidence showing up that some Nephites ended up in Europe!
Book of Mormon above showed to the professor.
Compared with Micmac Indian script (of Nova Scotia).
And then someone not of our faith compared it to this Irish script and tried to use that to prove the BOM as made up. The Stoddards heard it in a presentation at a homeschool conference. They looked into it and saw the Ancient Irish script had not been published in a time that Joseph Smith would have seen it, and he could not have used it to “make up” the BOM script above.
In comparison - here is Mayan script. It’s not even close.
Lindsey, I remember you talking about finding a connection between the Chichen Itza work and it being with the Cherokee as well on your trip to Mexico. I have wondered if that connection and the many parallels you saw between the two came from the time when the Mayan came up and invaded Georgia for 400 years. The Cherokee were very close to that area being in western North Carolina and I’m sure the two cultures mixed quite a bit. Enough to have the similar words and stories you found between the two on your vacation.
There’s info out there on this topic as well if wanting to search it further.
My son brought this to me tonight and I thought it was pretty neat! Goes back to this Heartland model topic (and tornadoes! Another theme we’ve talked about! 😅) Note that this “shafts in the whirlwind” phenomenon is something that occurs here in the Heartland.
This goes on to explore that topic further. Note how Mesoamerica doesn’t even have the right conditions for whirlwinds! The hearland of America’s does."
The question came up as to why the European Christians of the Bible Belt (who were among the many groups that came to America seeking religious freedom), have had a strong stance against the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon.
I had replied;
"I’ve pondered this before about the Bible Belt. I remember when we visited Tennessee a few years ago and we learned from a Dolly Parton show, all about her ancestors from the Smokey Mountains. They all came from Scotland. I had no idea at the time and it intrigued me. I remember several years ago a German family came to America seeking refuge because they were about to be arrested because the parents were trying to homeschool and that’s against the law in Germany. They were a Christian family with 7 kids (I think). So they felt led to Tennessee. They came for refuge in the Smokey Mountains. I can’t remember what happened to them but I think I heard the German government summoned them back and they were forced out of the U.S. anyways it had me again pondering about the settlers of that area. So interesting about why one group was so resistant?"
Later Beth said;
"A distant cousin sent me this book in the mail today. It’s quite thick, about 900 pages, and was more than I wanted to pay on Amazon. She saw me talking in a group about groups of people that came to America and thought I would enjoy this book. She had the thought to send it to me, and so gifted it! It’s been so interesting so far!
It details the 4 different British groups that came to America and the differences between them. Which parts of England and explores the differences in dialect, religious views and practices, child naming and reading approaches, and general views on law and morals. It’s pretty fascinating! But neat she thought to even send it to me as this has been a topic of interest for a while and she had no idea. This is not even what I was talking about in the post she read.
These are the four groups it explores. What really gets me is she wrote and said she had the thought to send this to me on the day we were all wondering why there was such a difference between New England descendants that joined the church and other groups that ended up in the south and didn’t join the church. This book basically traces those groups histories and early time in America!
The first group discussed in this book is the New Englanders, the second group is the Jamestown group, third is the Quakers of Pennsylvania, and 4th is the Scotts to the Appalachia and south! Exact groups we had been talking about!"
I replied;
"I have always been fascinated with facial genetics and the study of where certain facial features originate. I once spent an entire day (several years ago) reading about it. I’ve not been able to find that website since but it was old research and photos from the 40’s-50’s of people all over the world. I remember I found an image of a woman who I felt looked just like me! I love history and I love learning about people and their origins."
Some other parts of our long conversation:
Beth said,
"Lehi landed in the Florida panhandle area. There’s a ton of evidence for it I can go into more detail with if you want. But the Lamanites stayed there and Nephi and his people went North until they got to northern Georgia and a Tennessee area. about the Chattanooga area of Tennessee is where they think the temple was built at a big flat overlook that is still considered sacred by native Americans. Basically that area was the land of Nephi. Lots of copper mines in that area.
Then later they went west and found the land of Zarahemla. Wayne May found evidence of the temple being right across from Nauvoo. Nauvoo was a Hopewell Indian burial ground. Those are believed to be Nephites. So basically, Joseph, Hyrum and Emma are buried literally in a Nephite Burial ground. Which is amazing.
The area that Wayne found the ancient temple evidence is in the place the Lord told JOseph Smith to name Zarahemla.
But it all goes with the theme we’ve talked about with the British lands - the Lord uses patterns of bringing his people to sacred areas over and over. Cumorah and the sacred grove, Kirtland and Bountiful, Nauvoo and Zarahemla, Jackson county and the Garden of Eden, Adam Ondi Ahman and the early saints, and Far West and what I think was a place that had to do with Noah.
The Mulekites and Jaradites entered in by way of the northern areas - st Lawrence canal and Great Lakes. They settled that Canada and northern Michigan area and then eventually came down to the Nauvoo area.
Wayne Maye does a whole lecture on how he has a theory that anytime you get an antichrist or trouble maker in the Nephites, it’s usually a Mulekite. They are usually noted to be very large in stature (Jaradites were the Adena - giants 9 feet tall), and they usually had some wicked Jaradite practices or philosophies. It was really interesting theory and now that he’s pointed it out, I see the pattern all the time when reading the BOM.
Real quick, from what I’ve studied, the Nephites and Lamanites did spread out a bit. I remember reading in Ether and there is a part where a king and his sons had to go East and hide for a while because someone had taken over the kingdom. Knowing the artifacts show the Adena (that’s the name of the native people that match up with the Jaradite timeline) - knowing where Adena settlements and burial sites are concentrated (Michigan and Ohio), I was looking at the map for which part of the coast they would have gone to. And then Wayne maye shared about some houses in the ground that are kind of like caves they found some where, that date to the Adena people. Anyway, always made me wonder if that’s where they hid out for a number of years.
They believe the Cherokees are the Lamanites that made an oath with Moroni to no longer fight with the Nephites and went eastward. And the Lamanite converts of Ammon were given land around St Louis area. Anyway, it is really fun to study up on.
From what I’ve seen, the pilgrims felt part of Israel. They felt they were modern day Israel. They followed the patterns of covenant keeping people’s....which means their ancestors probably were as well (Covenant Keepers). The Jamestown crew was more out for land, adventure, fortune, and business. It was a place for the children of wealthy nobleman to go and make their fortune, because they weren’t the oldest son inheriting their father’s fortune back in England. Also a lot of criminals or people who had debts were sent there. Their death rate was horrific - 2 of every 3 people died their first year in Jamestown during the first decade or so it was getting going. So 2/3 of the people died. For the pilgrims, 1/2 died the first winter. So...they actually survived better somehow.
Anyway, people both coming out of England, but such different focuses! I remember reading that when the Jamestown church burned or was knocked down somehow, they just didn’t even rebuild it for years. They had other priorities.
I know that my ancestors that come from that area went across the bay and settled in the Delmarva peninsula. The state of Virginia said they had to be Church of England. So my ancestors left with many others, and crossed the state lines into Delaware. Freedom of religion was important to them.
But the group you see join the early church in droves are the descendants of the pilgrims. I think they definitely had royal bloodlines.
Maybe the Jamestown group did too, but it was like the Israelites that were a tad slower at being valiant centuries ago??? Who knows. But history does tend to point to there being a difference somehow.
Many of the tribes that are thought to be Nephite descendants are found in the NE region with the “Algonquin” tribes. Once you get toward the South, you run into tribes that have more Lamanite stories in their traditional stories.
The Indians that helped both groups (pilgrims and Jamestown) were Algonquin. Which is interesting.
My ancestor at Jamestown was adopted by Chief Powhatan (Pocahontas’ dad) for a number of years so he could learn their language. He took a native girl to wife and had a child (also my ancestor).
So because of that connection to the Algonquin tribes, when I come across their chiefs and kings in the record books, I actually get to submit them for temple work! I think that is the coolest thing. Many of their tribes are wiped out by now, so there are no other descendants doing it. I hope that it is somehow helping Nephite descendants on the other side. On my dad’s side is Choctaw Indian from the South...lamanite. Which again, is cool to see those family names be done as well.
I have a book from a lecture I went to where a guy studied the different tribes and noticed a distinct pattern between tribes that were Nephite descendants and tribes that were Lamanite descendants. He also goes through and shows how all these customs the native Americans had parallel ancient Hebrew customs.
The native people of Mesoamerica march up DNA wise to Asians, and their architecture mimics the Hindu temples of India. I do believe Christ visited them as well. But I don’t believe it was the visit we read about in 3 Nephi.
Also, it was either the Mayan or Aztec that came up to the Georgia area and for about 400 years made the Lamanite people there slaves. They eventually went back to Mexico with many inter marriages. My personal thought is they would have taken many of the stories of Christ back down with them when that happened.
I could go on about all this for a while 😅 It really is exciting to think about it all happening here! There’s also the research showing evidence Nephites ended up in Europe. I remember the impression I had one day that when William Bradford met Squanto, it was the bringing back together of Nephite and Lamanite bloodlines. I was surprised to hear Lindsey say the same, and they also said the same in the Stoddard’s documentary of Nephites in Europe.
So...that may very well tie in to the Pilgrim bloodlines as well, If they had Nephite ancestry!
I remember reading an article last year about this abandoned City in England they discovered. As I read how it was set up for defense, I was amazed at how much it paralleled Moroni’s own strategy for defending cities. It made me wonder if Nephites ended up back in England somehow. After wondering that, the Stoddard’s came out with their research showing that yes, there is tons of evidence for that!
I feel like it gives a different perspective when you read the BOM and they talk about talking to their descendants and writing this book for their descendants...and you realize that literally means most of us as a people today in America! And other places throughout it the world. Prophets have confirmed Nephites ended up in Both Japan and New Zealand. The Stoddard’s found evidence for England, Netherlands, & Germany. It seems their bloodlines are mixed in throughout the world. The BOM really is for everyone."
I replied;
"I saw this article today and thought it was interesting." The article shows the map below of the native nations here in America.
Beth said;
"Saw this map today of the 11 different groups of settlers in the US" She compared it side by side to the native nations map.
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